Curse

arcanemacabre · May 10, 2008, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

The point of Ursan is to make everything in Guild Wars doable, so that everyone can have a full Hall of Monuments and a reason to buy Guild Wars 2. And when Ursan blows away all PvE grind, ANet will simply have to extend grind to keep the players invested, or attract bored Ursanites with shiny toys - tonics, emotes, titles...

*shudder*

Wow. I think you just hit the nail on the head. That's exactly why Ursan has not been nerfed. I'm really starting to feel dirty about attempting to fill my HoM, now.

Yeesh.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I realize this could be read that way, so I just wanted to clarify.

zwei2stein · May 10, 2008, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

.... In every pugs, or me with my heroes our only *strategy* is : warrior tank, Ele cast, monks heal, ranger lure and interrupt-woohooo that's what i call a strategy and it's the only one in guild wars i have seen so far in 2.5 years. ...

I feel bad for you. I do. Never experienceing anything else than rubbish tankway.

macie28 · May 10, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

I agree with the OP, if you guys can stop hating for a second and try to open your minds, that this is a game and people want to play it to have fun. Majority of the players are casuals and Ursan is a good way for them to explore the game further. I see Ursan flamers as elitist and just want to keep their "leetness".

All I know is, when Ursan was introduced, I got my guildies to get their Norn titles up, so that we can enjoy an elite mission run together without the hassle of setting up builds,waiting for people to get on because they're running the "specialized" monk/ele/rit/watever build, trying to find a good pug without them leaving in the middle of the run, etc etc. For most people (casuals especially), gaming time is limited and thus valuable. Ursan made the game more fun for MORE people, but obviously Anet can't please everyone. Majority wins tho.

good job on the post OP

Surena · May 10, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by macie28

I agree with the OP, if you guys can stop hating for a second and try to open your minds, that this is a game and people want to play it to have fun. Majority of the players are casuals and Ursan is a good way for them to explore the game further. I see Ursan flamers as elitist and just want to keep their "leetness".

With half a brain you can reach that "leetness" too, it's not hard, especially since you obviously have a guild full enough of active members.

This is a bad excuse to justify degenerative gameplay where 3 buttons count and not how you manage energy, watch aggro, hexes, conditions, target priorization. Yet PvE is not GvG, there's plenty room for forgiveness so it's cheap to state that Ursan opened the previously door with limited access for "everyone". Seems like "everyone" is too stupid for PvE then.

Any game needs a certain level of challenge to make it more exciting.

Quote:

All I know is, when Ursan was introduced, I got my guildies to get their Norn titles up, so that we can enjoy an elite mission run together without the hassle of setting up builds,waiting for people to get on because they're running the "specialized" monk/ele/rit/watever build, trying to find a good pug without them leaving in the middle of the run, etc etc. For most people (casuals especially), gaming time is limited and thus valuable. Ursan made the game more fun for MORE people, but obviously Anet can't please everyone. Majority wins tho.

good job on the post OP

Oh ok, so your whole guild needed Ursan to act and be able to play as a guild. Nice.

Turtle222 · May 10, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

*sigh* Do people not get it? Ursan is not going to be nerfed and even if it does...could you speak and rant about then instead of now, where any pitiful/witty opinion you make may at least have an effect.

Anet read the forums, and they have weighed it out time and again i'm sure...but the fact remains that TOA is filled with HM fow ursan clear groups, Slavers is done by ursan groups with 1 necro, DoA is done with 10/8 ursan groups. There is nothing complex about the way we use it, why we use it, or when we use it - it's simply a popular idea, and any opinion ursan haters make only add up to 1-2% of the population.

Pugs never did have any skill or diversity to begin with in elite areas, i really don't think ursan made it worse. Guildies are there for a reason

You'd think people would have learned by now..

Juk3n · May 10, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Last Night - a FoW armor clad Ele with 15 maxed titles joined my NM group for a Mission and Banana in Iron Mines Of Mollydolly, not only did he insit on using his Sabway Necros, but little did i know, he was an Ursan...

Wheres the sense of Pride..a normal mode tyria mission..Ursan??

He ran 50 ft. infront of everyone, aggroed everything in sight, which the rest of us managed to kill, Pinged Inquisitor and died!!

Rest of us killed him and then..this ursan left, it truly was the most usless display of Guild Warsing i have ever seen in my entire GW career (a damn long time).

All that because of 1 overpowered skill.

Ursan makes idiots out of already bad players, and that , friends, is the true enemy here.

I dont think the OP understands, what most of us bought GW for in the first place, imo, we bought it exactly because there were no 1 powerful sword to rule them all, no 1 set of armor to be the best and last and certainly not least..

*turns up the caps

BECAUSE THERE WERE NO SKILLS LIKE URSAN IN IT.

Ursan is the Anti - GW philosophy imho.

Angelic Upstart · May 10, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by macie28

".

so that we can enjoy an elite mission run together without the hassle of setting up builds,
For most people (casuals especially), gaming time is limited and thus valuable. Ursan made the game more fun for MORE people, but obviously Anet can't please everyone. Majority wins tho.

good job on the post OP

The 'hassle' as you put it, used to be part and parcel of what made this game as good as it once was.

People got better because they had to formulate thier own builds , by trial and error, no PvX.

Also, elite areas were accessible to the people who had put the time in to be able to operate successfully in those areas, casual players who did not were not able to go into to them due to thier inexperience, this is where UB has broken away from the principles of GW.

A bad player will still be a bad player with UB, they will still over aggro, show no spatial awareness or have any vestige of tactical nous whatsoever, and no idea of how to work within a team.

That is why PvE skills like UB are in my opinion just total fail.

"Pugs never did have any skill or diversity to begin with in elite areas, i really don't think ursan made it worse. Guildies are there for a reason"

LOL that statement is total bollocks, closely followed by this little gem,

"There is nothing complex about the way we use it, why we use it, or when we use it - it's simply a popular idea, and any opinion ursan haters make only add up to 1-2% of the population."

People use it because , human nature , like water seeks the path of least resistance, water however seeks the path of least resistance because of its physics, people are by nature lazy.

This game is unrecognisable from the first chapter, as it encourages, bad players to get worse, by not challenging them.

ogre_jd · May 10, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juk3n

All that because of 1 overpowered skill.

No. All that because of a Leeroy. He would've done the same thing with an Earth-based build getting no support from the team and would've ended up every bit as dead.

~ Dan ~ · May 10, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

You think playing Ursan is complex? I'd love to see you try a real skill bar with lots of utility.

Sirkl · May 10, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Wow a whinning thread about people whinning about ursan.

It isn't a playing style, its a skill (with lack of skill going along with it). Its just the pve version of the iway problem in ha back in the day, its all so the nublets can feel like they are awsome at something.

If you want to use it go ahead just don't expect people to say its complex when 5/8 of your party have the same 5 skills.

Everytime someone uses UB a kitten dies.

As the winner of this thread said

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

This is what ursan is:

Frank Dudenstein · May 10, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

It's really very simple:

- Some people believe elite areas and hard mode should be accessible to all players, casual and hardcore

- Some people believe that elite areas and hard mode should be an accomplishment that requires hardcore dedication

Personally I believe the latter, but the OP (and Anet apparently) believe the former.

End of story.

angmar_nite · May 10, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Why call them elite and hard if they aren't????

Trub · May 10, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

To explain as best I can with my limited english:

GW was touted as THE game to have for challenge, beauty, and rewards for GAMERS.
All video games have to have their 'elites'...be it items, weapons, or players.
It is the 'goal'...to have and be the best of the best.
To reach that goal used to mean...leveling your toon, learning and capping the needed skills for your proffesion, and using them wisely.
You completed the required tasks, collected your rewards...and THEN you were ready to either:
1.) Go for the end-game elite rewards..(HM, ELITE missions ect.-PvE)
2.) Have the max skills, armors, weapons to explore into the world of PvP.

Faction only skills, UB and others have made this transition fail.
People saw what the elite players were gaining after years of trial and error....demanded they could have those wonderous things too, but they wanted to be 'casual'...not invest the efforts as others had (Be it due to family ...work..school, LAZY ect.

)

ANet in it's 'please the plastic card holders' wisdom decided the 'elite' was no more.
The player that invested so much time, effort, and planning for the 'end-game' goals...no longer has a sense of pride for their devotion to a wonderful past time.
ALL games have the goal to compete, obtain, enjoy, and WIN.
ANet, I hate to say it...when you introduced faction only, and Blessing 'skills' into the game..it kind of ruined the acheivements alot of people were hoping to aquire thru challenges promoted in the original spirit of GW.

MithranArkanere · May 10, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Why call them elite and hard if they aren't????

Because unlike the rest of the game, you cannot just sit and wait for the Henchmen to do the job.

In the rest of the game, you are mostly making quests, and watching cinematics, and the H/H can easily take care of the killing.

In Hard mode and Elite areas, you are supposed to make more.

bhavv · May 10, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Because unlike the rest of the game, you cannot just sit and wait for the Henchmen to do the job.

In the rest of the game, you are mostly making quests, and watching cinematics, and the H/H can easily take care of the killing.

In Hard mode and Elite areas, you are supposed to make more.

You are supposed to 'make more' with Ursan???

No, you are supposed make more with SKILLED players, not noobs with Ursan.

Ursan to PVE = IWAY to PVP. I call it Noobway.

But dont worry guys! Anet WILL nerf it after we complain for three more years.

angmar_nite · May 10, 2008, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Elite and Hard in terms of reward yes, but also in terms of difficulty! An Ursan in HM now has a far easier time than a proph player two years ago.

Frank Dudenstein · May 10, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

To explain as best I can with my limited english:

GW was touted as THE game to have for challenge, beauty, and rewards for GAMERS.
All video games have to have their 'elites'...be it items, weapons, or players.
It is the 'goal'...to have and be the best of the best.
To reach that goal used to mean...leveling your toon, learning and capping the needed skills for your proffesion, and using them wisely.
You completed the required tasks, collected your rewards...and THEN you were ready to either:
1.) Go for the end-game elite rewards..(HM, ELITE missions ect.-PvE)
2.) Have the max skills, armors, weapons to explore into the world of PvP.

Faction only skills, UB and others have made this transition fail.
People saw what the elite players were gaining after years of trial and error....demanded they could have those wonderous things too, but they wanted to be 'casual'...not invest the efforts as others had (Be it due to family ...work..school, LAZY ect.

)

ANet in it's 'please the plastic card holders' wisdom decided the 'elite' was no more.
The player that invested so much time, effort, and planning for the 'end-game' goals...no longer has a sense of pride for their devotion to a wonderful past time.
ALL games have the goal to compete, obtain, enjoy, and WIN.
ANet, I hate to say it...when you introduced faction only, and Blessing 'skills' into the game..it kind of ruined the acheivements alot of people were hoping to aquire thru challenges promoted in the original spirit of GW.

This is exactly the point ... it captures the frustration of the players that DID work hard and now see their accomplishments so diminished. I would be a little disappointed too.

But I believe Anet had noble intentions with UB. The thing you are missing is this: some of the elite areas and hard mode are VERY difficult for some classes such as mesmers and paragons, because basically no one will let them in their group. You can say 'find a leet guild noob' but really that isn't a viable option for everybody.

And these are elite, dedicated players, but hamstrung by the misguided 'view' the community has on their chosen class.

So Anet tried to level the playing field a little, by creating a tactic that any class could use at a high level. Unfortunately they missed the mark badly and ended up making the game far too easy.

It's funny, I don't see the same level of vitriol directed at consumables. But they are just as bad. UB could disappear tommorrow and consumables still make the game ultra-easy.

Obviously Anet made a conscious decision that casual players should be able to easily complete elite areas. It's disppointing to the hardcore, but hey it's their game and they are entitled to follow their own business model.

Trub · May 10, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

It's funny, I don't see the same level of vitriol directed at consumables. But they are just as bad. UB could disappear tommorrow and consumables still make the game ultra-easy.

I was to busy focusing on skills that I let that gem pass...sorry..

But I agree..I have similar SKILLS on my bar that are all I need for my speed boosts.
Cons are not needed as badly as everyone thinks.

MarlinBackna · May 10, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

I was to busy focusing on skills that I let that gem pass...sorry..

But I agree..I have similar SKILLS on my bar that are all I need for my speed boosts.
Cons are not needed as badly as everyone thinks.

Well, of course cons are not needed, but they most certainly make the game (especially HM) much, much easier. Which is why they are used in many situations in high-end PvE. They allow ~30 min times for HM Urgoz and FoW. Ursan does help in those situations, but not as much as +100 health, +10 energy, +1 attribute, -5 dmg reduction, crit prevention, +10 armor, and 25% faster running and casting to all party members.

[DE] · May 10, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I didn't read this whole thread because I'm a lazy bastard but here is my quick thought.

Ursan needs to be balanced to the point where their is enough cushioning for the average player to beat an Elite zone with it fairly easily; but it should not be better or faster then the skillbars that hardcore players put together.

Ursan should be something that bad PUGs use but their should be better options out there for more experienced players. Unfortunately Ursan > Pretty much every team build ever.

Ursan needs to be viable for bad players so they can accomplish their goals but it should not be so overpowered where the good players are forced to use it to speed up runs so that they can match those of bad players who use the bear.

Yes I stated pretty much the same thing three times - because repetition rocks.